Page 1 of 3


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:34 pm
by Duo

Download v1.2 (January 2016): [Click here]

A revised/improved version of siege_cargobarge. Whereas in my siege_hoth2 map I adhered very closely to the original map, in siege_cargobarge2 I have taken more creative liberties, mostly due to the fact that the original Cargo needed a lot more fundamental changes than the original Hoth did. I also found the original Cargo to be rather simplistic in some ways, so I wanted to make it more complex.

Screenshots: [Click here]

    The primary goals of this update were to make the CC obj and the last obj easier for the defense -- even after the last update, they were still a bit too easy for the offense, and the CC was extremely rushable.
    I also wanted to fix the weirdness of destroying the 2nd obj.

  • 2nd obj: made the entire comm array thing part of the objective. You no longer have to attack just the stupid little panels; the whole thing is now destructible. Also removed ability to damage it with jump, and increased the health of the obj to 500 HP (was 270). You can't instantly destroy it by jumping anymore, but using yaw still kills it extremely fast. Feels like a proper siege objective now.
  • Node 1: moved the door a little closer in to the node; makes it a little harder for offense to sit back like a bitch and shoot at the obj from the hallway.
  • Command center: moved the hack to the other side of the door; slightly harder for offense to get to.
  • Command center: increased the hack time to 2 seconds(was 1), which is equal to codes hack time.
  • Command center: added an anti-rush shield; this objective was way too easy to rush and got rushed in almost all games.
  • Last obj: added defensive turrets; this objective was too easy for offense in general.
  • General: slightly reduced the sizes of the areas you can stand in while hacking; should make it easier to stop a hacker by knockbacking him off from the hack.
  • General: minor graphical adjustments and tweaks to cover obstacles.


    The primary goals of this update were to make the 2nd obj easier for the offense, and to make the 3rd-7th objs easier for the defense. I also wanted to rebalance the classes a little.

  • General: increased O reborn boss force jump to level 3 (was 2).
  • General: reduced O reborn boss saber offense to level 1 (was 2) (not sure if this actually makes a difference in saber vs saber combat).
  • General: increased D demo movement speed to 100% (was 90%) - equal to O demo speed.
  • General: increased O snowtrooper HP to 125 (was 100).
  • General: reduced D jan HP to 50 (was 75).
  • General: added sentry gun to D jan.
  • General: added seeker to O jan.
  • General: added double ammo flag to O jan and D jan.
  • General: removed double ammo flag from D snowtrooper.
  • General: fixed inconsistency/confusingness of health, starting armor, max armor, and bacta. Removed bacta and starting armor from all classes, and instead added the removed amounts as starting HP.
  • General: adjusted armor limits so that all classes except for reborn bosses and "tanks" (O chewie and D snowtrooper) have a maximum of 25 armor. reborn bosses and "tanks" cannot obtain armor.
  • General: added red/blue coloring to a couple of areas to eliminate ambiguity as to what these areas should be called (no more unclear "short" or "left" etc. - you can just call them red/blue).
  • General: removed facing-angle requirements for all hacks, so you can hack them no matter what direction you are facing.
  • General: added/changed some cover obstacles.
  • General: fixed some missing locations for teamchat/teamoverlay.
  • General: changed O snowtrooper skin to rebel_pilot, since galak skin made no sense for a Rebel soldier.
  • General: miscellaneous graphical improvements.
  • 1st obj: the ambush room door is now unlocked by pressing +yews on the panel instead of destroying it (prevents D from splashing the panel from outside the room).
  • 1st obj: fixed the vent above the D spawn having an unnecessary second grating.
  • 1st obj/7th obj: removed the vent entrance into 2nd obj.
  • 2nd obj: added a door at the main entrance (triggers anti-doorspam protection if server is running base_entranced siege server mod).
  • 2nd obj: decreased lift hack time to 5 seconds (was 8).
  • 2nd obj: made the main door to this obj open very slowly, so as to basically function as an anti-rush shield.
  • Cargo shaft bypass: permanently unlocked the door to the cargo shaft bypass, but removed the exit hole (it is now just a windowed area).
  • Cargo shaft bypass: moved the shield and ammo generators to the second floor.
  • Nodes: locked the tunnel doors(defense can still enter) and made them unlocked by the hack that previously unlocked the shaft bypass.
  • Nodes: doubled the health of both nodes to 2000 HP (was 1000) - equal to the HPs of the stations on Nar Shaddaa.
  • Nodes: added wall signs ("1" and "2") inside the tunnel.
  • Nodes: moved the node 1 main door a little closer to the hallway (slightly more favorable for the defense).
  • Nodes: increased the hack time for the little passageway into node 1 to 10 seconds (was 4).
  • Command center: locked the CC door and added a one-second hack that unlocks the door (the hack is next to the door).
  • Codes: increased the hack times for the codes to 2 seconds (was 1).
  • Last obj: Made the ambush room door unlock upon reaching this obj.
  • Last obj: Moved the O spawns on the last objective back farther (gives D more time to setup).

  • General: enlarged many corridors, chokepoints, rooms, and doors to be wider/taller and less spammy.
  • General: increased round timer limit to 22 minutes to account for the new objectives (was 20).
  • General: increased O reborn boss saber defense to level 3 (was 2).
  • General: reduced D lando HP to 50 (was 50+25 armor).
  • General: removed D chewie pistol and replaced it with E11.
  • General: removed double ammo flag from D chewie (this was already patched on most servers via PK3 patch)
  • General: removed cloak from D lando (cloak was already disabled via mod on most servers, anyway).
  • General: most vents are now taller, so you can stand up in them.
  • General: shield generators and ammo generators now dispense unlimited amounts (removed the "health bar").
  • General: fixed breakables having inconsistent health amounts (now they are all 1 HP).
  • General: fixed some vent entrance breakables not being able to be destroyed by jumping on them.
  • General: fixed missing health bars for some breakables.
  • General: fixed missing red/green coloring for breakable objs.
  • General: fixed lifts not killing players when crushing.
  • General: fixed bugged/missing text messages (e.g. for breaching the node rooms, lift hack).
  • General: corrected/rewrote text messages for clarity and to fix inconsistent grammar and punctuation.
  • General: made hack panels change textures to indicate on/off status.
  • General: removed a few fake/decorative doors and panels for clarity.
  • General: added some navigational signs on the walls (e.g. "1" and "2" signs for the nodes).
  • General: added radar icons for hacks.
  • General: added some ambient sounds (e.g. computer noises in the command center).
  • General: added some crates/obstacles.
  • 1st obj: removed the ammo/shield generator room.
  • 1st obj: added small rooms for the previously-useless doors.
  • 2nd obj: extended platform above entrance to be flush with the wall (prevents the "wookiee trick" and detpack-spamming)
  • 2nd obj: added a vent side entrance connected with the vent from the previous obj.
  • 2nd obj: added a couple of ladders.
  • 2nd obj: moved defense spawn down one level and into a corner.
  • 2nd obj: reduced lift hack time to 8 seconds (was 10).
  • 2nd obj: removed unnecessary destructable objects.
  • Node 1: moved this obj into the cargo checkpoint room so it can actually be defended.
  • Node 1: permanently unlocked the door into the area in which this obj was previously located.
  • Node 1: added a passageway from the ventilation node to node 1, unlocked by 4-second offense hack in the ventilation node (defense can open it even when locked).
  • Nodes 1 and 2: removed the lift between defense spawn and node 2 and replaced it with a passageway in between nodes 1 and 2, which defense can enter from spawn, and either team can enter from the nodes.
  • Node 2: added a second vent hole.
  • Node 2: changed the layout of the room to be more complex.
  • Cargo shaft: removed the upper area that was accessed via the lift.
  • Cargo shaft: remade the shaft bypass to be a raised area with an exit and a couple of windows.
  • Cargo shaft: defense can now open the shaft bypass door even when locked.
  • Cargo shaft: defense can now open the door to the node 2 vents even when locked.
  • Cargo shaft: added a small, crouching-only vent underneath the ramp.
  • Ventilation center: removed the jump-pad effect and air sound until after the command center is breached.
  • Ventilation center: removed damage infliction incurred from using the jump-pad.
  • Ventilation node: animated the decorative fan and added a death pit.
  • Codes: completely remade this objective. You now have to yews the codes to perform a one-second hack on either of two panels (one in the ventilation center, one in the cargo shaft).
  • Codes: removed codes radar icon while codes are being carried for strategic element of surprise (only works on servers running base_entranced siege server mod).
  • Codes: changed codes model to R5 droid head for improved visibility.
  • Codes: fixed bug where "the codes have been stolen" message was only displayed once.
  • Codes: adjusted positions and angles of offense spawnpoints in the command center to be more logical.
  • Codes: moved codes toward the center of the room instead of far off in the corner.
  • Codes: removed the hangar turrets and their corresponding hack.
  • Codes: moved the CC turrets in the inner hall so that they can fire into the shaft bypass.
  • 7th obj: added a new obj that is basically a reverse of the first objective, in which offense must reach the hangar (defense spawns in the room with the vent entrance).
  • 7th obj: the defense spawn door from the 1st obj unlocks upon reaching this obj.

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:31 pm
by Duo
Ok, I fixed the bug in the PK3. Check the original post for link!

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:53 pm
by Sith

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:01 pm
by Blackout
I think the second objective needs work...

Cargo 22 Hold

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:53 pm
by Duo
Blackout wrote:I think the second objective needs work...

Cargo 22 Hold

No. I watched about 11 minutes of that demo, and all I saw was an ineffective, uncoordinated, confused, predictable offense.

In the 11 minutes that I watched, I saw all of the following happen repeatedly:
  • Nobody going for frags; enemies were almost never dead.
  • O tech being useless, hard focusing demp on the unfreezable assault and HW. It was basically 2v3 while offense had a tech. He should have been freezing the D tech.
  • Jedis charging straight toward the assault and HW every spawn. The obj room is huge, but for some reason they chose to (predictably) run straight at the defenders every time. Bonus points for going up the ladder every spawn when they are just sitting at the top of it raining blobs/rockets down on you.
  • Jedis not using protect. This is the most powerful weapon O jedi has and it should be used whenever you are going to take damage, but I only occasionally saw anyone use it.
  • Repeatedly failing at jumping up the ladder properly; just doing wallflips instead. With jump2, you only have to bounce off the rungs once to make it up.
  • Attempting impossible jumps that were never even possible in cargo1.
  • Jedis not pushing rockets/blobs ever.
  • Scout scoping in against a D tech who is freezing him instead of disrupting.
  • At 9:15, a jedi got up near where the D spawn used to be located while defenders were down, and he seemed confused. He should have gone for the boost jump off the ramp to rush the obj, but he just ran around in circles and died. Obj should have been captured here.
  • 10:40: a jedi got up near the obj, the tech was down for 15-second spawn and the jedi was guaranteed to cap the obj. But instead of going for the obj, he just mysteriously ran around in circles for 9 years so the tech could respawn. And, surprise, as soon as the tech spawned, the jedi got demped for a max. Obj should have been captured here.

A much better strategy would have been to use scout, tech, jedi. The scout frags the gunners, tech freezes the defense tech, and jedi goes for obj. Or hell, even tech + 2 jedi. The tech freezes the D tech, and the jedis go for the obj. The gunners were going above the hack every time -- just have the jedis go to the other side of the map instead of charging directly at them every spawn. 2nd round of that pug had 2nd obj completed in 3:14. We played several pugs yesterday and had fast 2nd obj offenses, too. Turns out when you get kills and be useful, the obj isn't broken after all.

On a lighter note, I did laugh out loud when the O HW at first obj went for the dank rocket jump when there was still a defender alive, which led to his team being held for a couple more minutes at that obj.

When Nar came out, people were always complaining about every single obj being both stacked for O and D, depending on whichever one they had gotten outplayed by most recently. I was the creator of a very popular asymmetrical multiplayer Warcraft III map, and the same thing happened after release. After playing many games, people can learn the maps better and we can see trends. Over time, we can differentiate between actual map flaws and people simply being bad. I'm happy to make changes if needed, but let's not rush to judgement just because one team in one pug played poorly.

Never attribute to poor design that which can be adequately explained by poor play.

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:30 pm
by schrute
That was one of the worst offensive attempts I think I've ever seen. Re-watch from 13:00 to 19:30. Offence literally doesn't kill a single player for over 6 minutes. And the second they go lando instead of double jan, they instantly get kills and get the objective. Was that a serious pug or am I missing something????? Players were literally walking in straight lines to get hit by rockets instead of trying to move in any other direction.

Rewatched the demo and the offence literally got 13 kills on the second objective. Over 14 minutes. An entire team combined was rocking a .9 kpm.

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:49 am
It was serious pug, even if it didn't looks like it.

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:16 am
by Ýô
wookie trick ftw !!! Even with changes that obj is baaaaad :P

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:31 am
by Sith
This game was a meme. For me it was just a 'Training Game Center'.

Re: siege_cargobarge2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:33 am
by Blackout
Although I agree the offence were pretty bad the objective is a hard one. I think this is down to the only reasonable way of doing the objective os a reborn boss getting all the way up or a jan hacking which should never be allowed to happen. It takes upwards of 40 seconds to make it from spawn to the objective which is too long imo.