ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Discuss our favorite gametype.

What is your favorite map to pug?

Poll ended at Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:13 am

Hoth
9
17%
Korri
6
12%
Desert
4
8%
Cargobarge
4
8%
Nar Shaada
8
15%
Project Digimon
1
2%
h3h
6
12%
Jhoth
4
8%
Sillyroom
5
10%
Bankjob
0
No votes
Endor
0
No votes
Castle
0
No votes
Byss
1
2%
Tie Factory
1
2%
Theed
0
No votes
Imperial Raid
0
No votes
Tietest
0
No votes
Zombies
3
6%
 
Total votes : 52

ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby AmericanFool on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:16 am

What is your favorite map to pug?

Gentlemen, we are at an impasse in the history of siege. The community life of the game is currently in period of relatively low activity. However, the gameplay of siege has picked up and has been going strong for several months, kept alive by a small but (unhealthily?) active group of players. With pugs happening every night there have been few visible threats to the vitality of the game, until now. Increasingly we are having impasses on a question that for years rarely troubled pugs, "What map do we play?".

Never before have I seen the variety of opinions and strong preferences on this subject. I believe there are two reasons for this:

First there is no longer a strong siege heirarchy keeping people in line. Where once C5's were universally accepted (though perhaps not respected) as manatees and gatekeepers to decision making in the pug world, we now have no clear leadership. This can be both good and bad. On the one hand it allows new an less experienced players a more welcome environment, and higher likliehood that they will be allowed to contribute to decisions and games (eg. map selection, auto d/o, capts, tactics). However, on the flip side pugs are generally taking a lot longer to organize, and players are leaving or boycotting pugs in attempts to slight or gain a type of power over their rivals. As much as I'm sure many of us like having our voices heard, JKA siege is hardly a place conducive to coming to good decisions as a group.

Secondly, we have more good maps then ever before and the map makers make up a larger proportion of the community then they previously have. I'm instinctivally against change most of the time, however if I think about this objectively the upside to having a variety of good maps to play is clearly greater then the downside (The only major one being that it takes time to learn the maps, provided this is done before we pug them then I think the downside is minimal).

All of this being said, I think our best option to avoid further administrative battles is one of two: Elect up to a max of 5 "pugmasers", who we can trust to make all further administrative in-game decisions (Including which maps to play). This option is terrible because we siegers do not have nearly the level of trust needed built up in our community that would translate to such a system working without complaint and rebellion.

Or

We could have an exhaustive discussion of our favorite maps in a forum, and hope that we come to mutually beneficial community conclusions that will help to shortcut our votes and discussions when in-game. This option wins!

Things to consider when choosing your favorite maps:
-The scenario, you should choose your favorite map according to its optimal conditions. Eg. When considering whether to vote h3h or Cargo, assume we are playing h3h 5v5 and Cargo 3v3.
-The maps potential for you. For instance I suck at Silly, but I realize this has more to do with me still trying to understand the tactics, not necessarily because it sucks.
-Do not vote based on the maps structural potential. eg. Castle would be better if the 10 consoles your supposed to destroy on 2nd objective weren't so hard to find. This is a discussion for mappers to have, we are trying to figure out what maps we should play AS THEY CURRENTLY STAND.

Other stuff:
-Consider other modes like Zombies as well, or quasi siege maps like Silly and Hydroball (only consdier if played).
-State your list, and comment on each of your choices as well as voting. Comment on other peoples choices...
-Discuss.
-Deliberate
-Flame each other
-Decide
-No Csr hate
-No furry pics

I've given you each 4 options for the "official poll". But please, if you comment rank all the maps you've played.
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Ramshi on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 am

Some general views from me:

- I find games that are 4v4 or more the most fun e.g. Korri, h3h

- Hoth is a good map but I agree it's overplayed, I wouldn't mind it say if we play it once every day/night we pug, but every time gets boring.

- What the hell is Bankjob.

- We haven't played zombies in over a year, I forgot what it's like.

- All the new maps people have created are fun so long as I know what the hell I'm doing. I guess not knowing is an effect of barely playing them.
Or maybe they're just too confusing like Byss xDD
Kidding, Blackout :P

- I suck at most new maps because I don't have class binds for anything other than Hoth, Des and Korri. If someone could please give me ESM which doesn't have shitty capital letters instead of crests to represent classes I would greatly appreciate it.

- What the hell is Theed.

- Not playing desert unless both teams have at least one proper lando. 2v0 landos = me not playing, suz.

- Just an idea for map creators, don't take this as offense but as constructive criticism, but can we please try and move away from corridor-oriented maps or maps with very enclosed walk-areas. More often than not it's just a free run through the corridor until the end/obj where everyone is camped defending. For example I'm yet to see a mine laid in Byss from where the codes are taken to the unlock. Or Castle in those long corridors. (Don't tell me to f off and create my own map because I can't and don't have the time for it).

- Stay up later or get up super early so I can join in more pugs :D

- I can't be stuffed to rank all those maps, there'd be like 5 tied for first, 7 tied for second and 6 for third because either I don't know what the hell they are or I know what they are but we've never had a 3v3 pug on them or I haven't played in 1+ years

That's all from me for now.
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby aradorasxeon on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:55 am

AmericanFool wrote:-No furry pics


THIS :lol: :lol: :lol:

1st hoth
2nd h3h
3rd nar
4th des

I am kinda bored of my own map (p_D) it is probably because I was working too lot on it.

I still love hoth, h3h 5s was so awesome I want more of it, also des 3s< was good, too.

I hate zombies.

Bankjob is barely playable with given classes.

I have played most of j3rk's listed map only once (and it was just a look around, not real playing).

I still think cargo is full of designer faults, and is overloved (considering the fact that i was yelled at because of those mistakes).

Endor isn't ven finished as I know.

I don't really like silly. (probably because of teleports)

Byss needs to be lighted as in singleplayer :D

Ramshi wrote:- Just an idea for map creators, don't take this as offense but as constructive criticism, but can we please try and move away from corridor-oriented maps or maps with very enclosed walk-areas. More often than not it's just a free run through the corridor until the end/obj where everyone is camped defending. For example I'm yet to see a mine laid in Byss from where the codes are taken to the unlock. Or Castle in those long corridors. (Don't tell me to f off and create my own map because I can't and don't have the time for it).


We (at least I) make corridor-oriented maps because of three reasons.
1; we usually don't have the luxory of playing more than 3s and as of that if there are more ways than one it gets really hard or impossible to defend.
2; Engine is more than 10 years old, IT IS DESIGNED for coridor-oriented maps, and can't handle big places (if I ever realease metro you will get hard fps lagg because of it)
3; I made a map called KTR it is kind of corridor-oriented but since you can do objectives in which order you want it has more possibility in it = can't be defended, final version was pugged twice, overall it was pugged less than 25 times.
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2014.05.05. Thanks for al the fun!

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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Ramshi on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:27 am

aradorasxeon wrote:
We (at least I) make corridor-oriented maps because of three reasons.
1; we usually don't have the luxory of playing more than 3s and as of that if there are more ways than one it gets really hard or impossible to defend.
2; Engine is more than 10 years old, IT IS DESIGNED for coridor-oriented maps, and can't handle big places (if I ever realease metro you will get hard fps lagg because of it)
3; I made a map called KTR it is kind of corridor-oriented but since you can do objectives in which order you want it has more possibility in it = can't be defended, final version was pugged twice, overall it was pugged less than 25 times.


You can 2s on hoth or nar, or even des and they're open maps
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Laser on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:50 am

Boycotting popular maps is gonna kill what's left of siege
Less QQ more Pew Pew
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby aradorasxeon on Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:59 am

Ramshi wrote:
aradorasxeon wrote:
We (at least I) make corridor-oriented maps because of three reasons.
1; we usually don't have the luxory of playing more than 3s and as of that if there are more ways than one it gets really hard or impossible to defend.
2; Engine is more than 10 years old, IT IS DESIGNED for coridor-oriented maps, and can't handle big places (if I ever realease metro you will get hard fps lagg because of it)
3; I made a map called KTR it is kind of corridor-oriented but since you can do objectives in which order you want it has more possibility in it = can't be defended, final version was pugged twice, overall it was pugged less than 25 times.


You can 2s on hoth or nar, or even des and they're open maps


Oh those counts as open maps? :O Oh well then, ktr is an open map so I already made one, uwb is pretty open from this perspective, in p_D well no p_D is meant to be this way. And as you probably ahve noticed p_D is much more played than my other two finshied siege maps.

In the matter of byss, the brush work was already done, so blackie can't really do anything with that.
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Magyk on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:19 am

AmericanFool wrote:Increasingly we are having impasses on a question that for years rarely troubled pugs, "What map do we play?".



AmericanFool wrote:First there is no longer a strong siege heirarchy keeping people in line. Where once C5's were universally accepted as manatees and gatekeepers to decision making in the pug world



AmericanFool wrote:However, on the flip side pugs are generally taking a lot longer to organize



AmericanFool wrote:quasi siege maps like Silly











1.) People can play whatever the fuck maps they want. JKA is a video game about having fun. If someone doesn't want to play Hoth because they don't have fun doing it than tough shit for the rest of us and we can play 2.5s or someone can spec. Do you people realize how many times a week i DONT want to play hoth, and I still do it for you? Pretty sure once in a blue moon you can play another map for other people too.

2.) Hoth is overplayed.

3.) People are so stupid at picking "good" maps they still want to play cargo instead of jhoth 99% of the time.

4.) People don't learn the new maps unless we play them. The days of taking people in a locked server and teaching them maps are over. The only people who do that anymore are map makers. No one is going to teach Ramshi Bank or Theed unless we show up there to play it.

5.) Jerk's "rdm2d" is an amazing siege map and is underplayed as fuck and isn't even on this list. It's level of finish and competitiveness rival's that of Nar Shaddaa. Prime example of how poor this community is at picking good maps.

6.) We always took forever to pick maps.

7.) We always took forever to start pugs.

8.) People have always had to learn maps on the fly for the last 6-7 years.

9.) According to gametrack, over the LAST WEEK 47% of all maps played are either Hoth or Nar Shaddaa (27% hoth) that leaves 53% split up between Cargo, Silly, h3h, desert, korriban, byss, bank, and three zombie maps.
(for the record, silly = 8% so stop saying omg we play it so much all the time wtf!!11)

In case you're keeping score, that's roughly 50% for 2 maps, and roughly 50% for the other 10 maps we've played in the last week. Tell me again how we aren't playing Hoth enough and it's killing siege.

(On an unrelated note, I never checked the gametracker info for Paddy's Pug before but apparently in the last month it was the 22nd server in JA.)
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Turquoise Dragon on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:10 am

Yes, Hoth is massively overplayed. We got over 30 maps to work with on the server. Granted, some suck (endor and mygeeto tend to jump to mind), some are more novelty (silly and korriguns), and some are too big to do small games with (h3h). Still, that remains at least 10-15 that are playable in the average pug.

TL;DR: My point stands: fuck hoth.

Rage aside, I'll list some of the maps I like more than the rest (no particular order)....

SIlly - it's highly competitive, and non-linear. You can go for the stations in any order, and there's a buttload of strategies out there to play it with. Also, play is heavily immersed with trying to get into your opponent's heads to cut them off, as well as mindfuck with them.

Desert - I like sniping. Not the best at it, but I like it. Also, jan can be super-helpful here if you play it right. Also how the stations/droid objectives can be completed in any order, which ties in to a bit of the silly gameplay. Though as a downside, I don't like how you practically have to have at least one reborn boss to have any hopes of winning against a decent team (hint hint, I suck at reborn boss, and don't go reborn boss when team tells me to, as I'll just do worse).

H3H - teamwork/coordination heavy. After all, this is a team-based game, so why not have a map where you need good teamwork to play? I also like how there's alt routes sprinkled around the map.

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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Magyk on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:23 am

This is an irrelevant topic anyway, because we're going to "decide to play" the same maps regardless of whether or not we have a forum discussion about it.

Hoth, Des, Korri, Nar, Cargo, byss, silly, p_D, the occasional h3h and that's about it.

Those of us who still play the game for fun (Mike, Tom, Blackie, Xeon, Kane, Laser among others spring to mind) will continue to play maps like Castle, rdm2d, tietest, etc on our own time when the map-elitist snobs aren't around.

This topic isn't going to help us start games any faster. If that's what you want, just go AFK in the server and say "xfire when picked." It's not that hard.
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Re: ATTN: PUGGERS. What is your favorite map?

Postby Blackout on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:41 am

1) Hoth
2) Nar
3) Byss
4) JHoth

1) This is my favourite map in siege and probably always will be it's the most competitive and balanced map on the server. It may well be overplayed as a map but that is largely, in my opinion, due to the fact that the server starts on that map and people will just go for a quick pug on hoth to start; often 2s while waiting for other people.

2) Nar I probably like this because it contains the gameplay elements I most enjoy, fighting across an open area to hack/destroy the objective.

3) It needs tweaking I know that but I enjoy playing it and I think it can be a competitive and enjoyable map if people try to learn it. I'm always willing to show people round before the start of a pug and if needed I could even show people tactics which I have thought of.

4) Mainly included this to show that it's so much better than cargo and yet people still want to play that, I can never understand why. Though JHoth contains many of cargo's faults it's a much better map overall.

There are a few maps that we should play more, that are actually playable. Rdm1d is an ok map but the spawn points for the generator objective are much too close together and become a little ridiculous.
My other map Imperial Base IMO is a better map than Byss for siege structurally and though unfinished it is playable and rather open to reduce spam to minimal amounts. The 2 objectives that are inside are actually quite easy to capture with a little team work and the outside objectives could be quite enjoyable and competitive but nobody seemed interested in playing the map at the time.
UWB is an excellent map in need of a bit of work, maybe some clipping and possibly classes, but the objectives are really well placed and each as defendable as the last. People really should give this a go because it's extremely simple as well.
H3H is a bit stupid because of the amount of people needed to play the outside objectives and then a different amount of people would be better for the last objective. However it's, on the whole, a fun map.
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