Gun Control

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Re: Gun Control

Postby Caesar on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:56 pm

I saw this at school actually; the teachers had the news on during 7th period. Not sure what to say really. I can't begin to imagine what those parents/family members are going through. I doubt those families will even celebrate Christmas this year because the joy of their lives just vanished. I just can't imagine..... No words......
I was very impressed with what Obama said. It almost made me proud to have him as a president. I'm not sure what law or restriction could really prevent this; there will always be that one guy. It really amazes me that anyone could kill 20 children.


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Re: Gun Control

Postby Darth_Wayne on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:11 pm

Magyk wrote:The only part of this story that is truly about a gun, is the fact that there wasn't a gun there to stop the shooter.


Yes what a shame these children weren't armed, might have prevented a tragedy.

Am I the only one sickened by how the media has covered this? From interviewing traumatized children to regularly updating the "body count" it's been pretty disgraceful all around.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Ramshi on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:12 pm

When a person is in a place where they have a right to be and are violently assaulted they should (and do) have the right to yews reasonable force in his or her own self defense and that may or may not result in a justified killing.


That's one of the main arguments. The way I see it, you shouldn't kill someone even if it's justified. If every other democracy has working gun control laws, I don't see why it shouldn't work for Americans.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Ramshi on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:14 pm

Yes what a shame these children weren't armed, might have prevented a tragedy.


Armed children?

The way I see it, that is only going to cause further incidents in the future.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:26 pm

A.) Nobody said arm six and seven year olds, and you're fools if that's how you're going to interpret my comments. If a police officer had been on the scene, I'd have preferred to to have a firearm to yews rather than having to call for specifically designated firearm units as in other countries.

B.) You shouldn't kill someone if it's not justified? Okay, Ram. You sit there and get murdered. I'm going to fight tooth and nail to protect myself and those around me.

C.) Gun control laws do not work, and there is no evidence for this that is undisputed. Yes, there is evidence out there that gun control works - but please show me the study that is not disputed by an equally credible study. You do realize that gun related crime in England had nearly a 100% increase in the decade following their stricter sanctions on firearms, right? Clearly that worked miracles.

D.) The way the media has covered this has indeed been a disgrace. Part of me wonders if the way the media covers these stories is one of the reasons that they continue. The shooters names become household, but nobody remembers the victims. The media treats the killers like celebrities, people that will be remembered throughout history. Perhaps in the media didn't put such an emphasis on what monsters the killers were, they would not be so quick to attempt to get their name in the record books.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Ramshi on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:32 pm

B.) You shouldn't kill someone if it's not justified? Okay, Ram. You sit there and get murdered. I'm going to fight tooth and nail to protect myself and those around me.


As in, don't point a gun at their head in self defense. Maybe incapacitation might work. If you have no choice, fine. But there are incidents when maybe a victim could have shot their gun arm/hand or whatever, but instead had a direct chest/head shot. Negotiation, maybe. Although that wouldn't work on a crazy madman like this one.

C.) The way the media has covered this has indeed been a disgrace. Part of me wonders if the way the media covers these stories is one of the reasons that they continue. The shooters names become household, but nobody remembers the victims. The media treats the killers like celebrities, people that will be remembered throughout history. Perhaps in the media didn't put such an emphasis on what monsters the killers were, they would not be so quick to attempt to get their name in the record books.


I agree on that. I've had my share of debates on this issue. The media does what it does to keep going. Why? Because in the first hours/days after the incident, the emotions are at their highest. The media make top stories when they incorporate emotion. It happens with any other major incident. Take those miners trapped down in Chile or wherever back in what was it, 2009? The moment they got rescued, the media dragged them in and pay them to front the cameras. And when they ask, "Do you miss your families?", they can't say "Fuck you, you haven't even let me see them yet." So instead, they pour out their emotions.

The media does have problems in many social and ethical aspects. Their system also needs to undergo reviewing.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Ramshi wrote:
B.) You shouldn't kill someone if it's not justified? Okay, Ram. You sit there and get murdered. I'm going to fight tooth and nail to protect myself and those around me.


As in, don't point a gun at their head in self defense. Maybe incapacitation might work. If you have no choice, fine. But there are incidents when maybe a victim could have shot their gun arm/hand or whatever, but instead had a direct chest/head shot. Negotiation, maybe. Although that wouldn't work on a crazy madman like this one.



I would agree that killing should always be the last resort, but to not have it as an option would be foolish. When it comes to self-defense, all bets should be off.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Turquoise Dragon on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:09 am

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Re: Gun Control

Postby Sakke on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:02 am

Magyk wrote:
Ranger Bob wrote:and that they just really want their guns.

Most people refer to that as freedom.

I'm having a hard time understanding this.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:18 pm

Sakke wrote:
Magyk wrote:
Ranger Bob wrote:and that they just really want their guns.

Most people refer to that as freedom.

I'm having a hard time understanding this.


As someone who has gun collecting as a hobby, I would turn over this response to Mike who I'm sure could articulate it better than I.

I do not personally own any firearms (family owns a small pistol, but I've never seen it used and only even seen it taken out one time when we had an unidentifiable animal perusing our property, but that's a story for another time) but I take comfort in knowing that I have the freedom to purchase a firearm if I should so choose.

I do not appreciate a government telling what I can and can't do, beyond a certain point. The government should be kept out of my life as much as humanly possible. I do not want the government infringing upon my rights to own a firearm if I should so choose.
Last edited by Magyk on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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