ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Talk about whatever you wish.

Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Ramshi on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:26 am

and how many soldiers' lives will be lost as a result? What about Iraqi/Syrian civilians?
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Blackout on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:55 am

Caesar wrote:yews tactics similar to that of Hitler's

The objective isn't to conquer the middle east don't be ridiculous.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:13 am

At the height of the Afghan War, we sent around 25k troops. The US military has 1.4 million active troops, and about another million in reserves. If we wanted to, we could absolutely obliterate anyone we wanted to in two weeks.

That said, using that kind of brute force would probably be bloody and not really feasible in the real world.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Caesar on Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:13 am

I am not necessarily referring to conquering the Middle East, I just think fast, decisive action would solve this matter easily.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:12 am

Caesar wrote:fast, decisive action would solve this matter easily.


Obama is not the "decisive" President. Obama is a poll watcher. He says only what people want to hear, and relies on the mainstream media to shove his blunders under the carpet. Remember the Bergdahl trade? One deserter for a handful of top terrorist leaders? You don't hear much about that on the news these days.

It'd be nice to do something, but the reality is we're just going to send 475 troops who will probably go sit on a military base in Kuwait and do nothing, and we will probably never hear anything about it ever again as more and more people literally lose their heads.

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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Darth_Wayne on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:41 am

Caesar wrote:I am not necessarily referring to conquering the Middle East, I just think fast, decisive action would solve this matter easily.


Yeah, but you're really fucking stupid and have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Blackout on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:08 am

If those figures are correct then I don't see the need for an armed force of that size, the same effect could be achieved with even a fifth of that number.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:34 am

Not really. I sleep pretty soundly at night knowing we have a military that could crush pretty much anyone. With China, NK, growing their armies and Russia trying to grow theirs to Cold War era numbers, I'll gladly keep paying my taxes to dump money into my own country's protection.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby MajorMajor on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:07 pm

Wow, this topic blew up quick. :shock:

I hope the glass parking lot idea wasn't serious otherwise I'd have to call you a madman. Thought about it some myself though when I get frustrated enough at the situation over there. Also, using Hitler's tactics might be construed as advocating brutality in war and genocide. Not saying you are just saying you might not want to advocate a swift decisive strike that way.

I remind everyone of Bush's mistakes every chance I get only so we don't end up committing them again. They are pretty big ones after all and they matter. I fully recognize that one has to deal with the situation at hand not the one they'd prefer though so the could have beens are only something to keep in mind when considering the future.

If I were in charge I'd be licking the heck out of ISIS right now while I work out a larger plan. My main beef with Obama is not that he doesn't act but that he does so too slowly. Even Bill Clinton would have done massive airstrikes weeks ago. I disagree with the opinion that Obama is following the polls with this or everything else he does. The polls are all for acting. If he were following them he'd have done a lot more a long time ago.

Obama is a mediator you can see it in his strategy. He wants everyone to come together and be a part of the solution. The truth is that hardly anyone wants to help in the middle east. Hence, it doesn't work. He's getting token comittments from every country and nothing substantial that is going to stop ISIS.

My plan would be:

1. Airstrike the crap out of them to disrupt their organization. Do not allow a foothold.
2. Support(i.e. weapons, aid, airstrikes & special forces help on ground at most) the Kurds on the ground in the north of Iraq.
3. Work with Iran to arm and support the Shia in the south.
4. Suck it up and support Assad in Syria to crush ISIS there.
5. Divide the whole of Iraq into parts when ISIS is in ruins. If the sects still fight amongst each other great. It keeps them busy. Our focus is the terror group.

Yes, I support brutal regimes and dictators. Do I like it? No. But I guarantee supporting someone who actually has a real military works better than trying to fight both Assad and ISIS at the same time with a crappy moderate rebel group(does it even exist?) that is barely holding out on its own against both of them. We don't get along with Iran but on this issue they are nearby have a lot of troops and are willing to do something. If they take over part of Iraq after ISIS, so what? They can waste their resources trying to control it and are far more manageable with diplomatic resources than a terror group.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:34 pm

Particularly on the point of Obama being a uniting president:

Interesting you would describe our President as someone who is attempting to unite all, because he is doing a shit job at it. He takes almost every opportunity he can get to divide everyone based on class, income, race, and party. Obama has pushed through healthcare with ZERO republican support. He constantly violates the terms of the US Constitution. He ignored his own deficit commission. He ignored and disbanded a council of advisers from the business sector. He takes every opportunity he can grab at to shoot down firearms supporters (not find common ground. Go look up his Sandy Hook speech, all he does is tarnish the reputation of agun owners and basically call for a full ban.) He weighs in on racial issues like the Ferguson shooting for no real reason. Income inequality has skyrocketed under his administration. He has ignored, constantly, his military advisers (leaving us in the situation we are in now.)

Hell, even his second Inaugural speech was filled with hateful subtext to divide Americans.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/01/21/th ... tionaries/

Think about every speech you've ever heard him give, and think about how often he has been playing the "lone wolf" card. Lots of "I" and "Me" but no talk of "We" or "Us."
http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/terence-p ... ech-vowing

If you cannot see that our President is one of the most divisive and dishonest Presidents of all time, you are lost.

An ABC poll the other day revealed that the majority of the people in the country feel this way as well.
http://jpupdates.com/2014/09/09/abc-pol ... t-divider/
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