JKAsiege

Just curious.

vgj

they don't know how much income is classified as "too much." epic failure, overtaxing people who shouldn't be.

Barak Obama want's to help USA and improve the country through a social plan, and you call him *red*
Hell, you have no idea of the benefits this "communism" he's trying to bring USA to... I pity the fool not supporting this idea, really.

I'm not really big on politics and I'm not sure what any of this matters, TBH.

That may seem sad, but I figure they're gonna do whatever they want since they tha man.

"I would just stock up on guns and ammo now." ~Justin Case

:/

~archi

Max Rambone wrote:...they're gonna do whatever they want since they tha man.

^^



Also; I like to inform people that social services do not equate to socialism and point out that police, fire fighters, public schools, libraries, national parks, nursing homes, etc. are all social services.

That's obvious, Kerafym, sir, but you'd have to consider that these social services are gonna be the start of it all..I suggest you read "Capital" by Marx, and you'll understand what I mean...


*WARNING* This message is directed at Kerafym, and has no intention in starting a fight in any way.

What's next? Trk becoming a pimp? Oh wait, this is reality...

Helaku wrote:That's obvious, Kerafym, sir, but you'd have to consider that these social services are gonna be the start of it all..I suggest you read "Capital" by Marx, and you'll understand what I mean...


*WARNING* This message is directed at Kerafym, and has no intention in starting a fight in any way.

What's next? Trk becoming a pimp? Oh wait, this is reality...

How long have police and fire fighting forces been established in western society? Quite long enough for the onset of socialism to spread, if in fact they were catalysts for socialism.

We're one of the last "civilized" western societies to adopt some sort of social healthcare policy. If it really is a catalyst for some sort of socialism takeover, I think we'll spot it in other societies first.

Regardless, Joe McCarthy is dead. Ways of life other than our own aren't inherently evil or incorrect. I don't know why people are so mortified by the mere mention of words like "socialism," "communism," and anything other than democratic republic and capitalism.

1. There is already in process in the federal courts a challenge to the law based on these grounds: the law apparently will require the public to engage in a private commercial transaction (purchasing health insurance) under threat of civil penalties. This is different than taxing the public to provide a public service run by the government, with public oversight etc. The former described action is according to at least some experts unconstitutional, and therefore not a requirement the Congress can validly impose on the people.
2. It makes demands on the states to provide services without providing any additional revenues for the states to fund those services. With CA bankrupt and a bunch of other states not far behind, this is both a violation of states' sovereignty and fiscally irresponsible.
3. The bill contains a decent amount of "pork" ie bribes for specific states, the only purpose of which was effectively to buy the votes of different legislators. Although this is par for the course for politics, it is certainly contrary to Obama and the Dems' (and Reps' for that matter) promises both to be above board in their policies and to reduce/eliminate "pork" spending.
4. If I understand correctly, the so-called "public option" was not a part of the final bill that was passed. Although this one would have been the worst example, the law in numerous lesser but still serious ways violates the idea of subsidiarity - the idea that it's best to deal with things on the smallest possible scale (locally, state, etc) and involve the higher levels (ie federal) only when absolutely necessary. This is to prevent consolidation of powers (=decrease of freedom and autonomy), and enable each community to make decisions that make sense for it that may not make sense elsewhere. Say for example public health care would be good for New Jersey but not for Idaho. Under a federal law, all people in the country have to follow the same rules, whether they make any sense for a particular location or not.
5. The bill in its current implementation contains no provision to enforce the long-standing prohibition on providing federal funding for abortion, or the so-called conscience clause that allows medical professionals to refuse to engage in actions they consider immoral (abortions among other things). The Obama administration knows full well the Hyde Amendment doesn't apply and the recent executive order will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court and nullified before too long.

These are just a few of the reasons the bill is unpopular.

No one disagrees that the health care system is in need of reform. But quite a few, including a majority of the American public (I generally hear numbers in the 70% range) are against the current implementation of so-called reform. It changes too much too fast and brings way too many bad side effects. There are other ways to solve the health care problems without defunding Medicare, disregarding the long-standing block of federal funds for abortion and other anti-life activites, and creating 150-odd (at last count) new government bureaucracies to take control of 20% of our national economy (the healthcare sector). At this point, I and quite a few others would like to see Congress go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan that doesn't suck.

"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." - Pres. Gerald Ford

There's a reason that many Canadians as well as many other countries Presidents come to America for our health care.
It's because their socialist system sucks.

PS: Love the fact that soon my grandmother and younger cousins can be denied assistance on the grounds of being too old or too young. Awesome idea.

PPS: I'd like to formally thank the Democrats for royally screwing themselves over in the November Elections too.