Kain wrote:Fuck the term "Rape Culture"
So you don't believe in it?
SpaceJam wrote:i'll attempt to spell it out one more time for you.
SpaceJam wrote:to help further explain this to you, i direct you to a few of the definitions of oppression from dictionary.com
First of all, infantilisation is really the way to go when you want to prove a point. Right.
SpaceJam wrote:because someone says dumb things (like comparing harmless jokes to "oppression") that is why he/she isn't taken seriously. in this case, it is women like you, and largely women everywhere who blindly just start claimng they are being oppressed, without any consideration to the implications or meaning of what they are saying. people don't dismiss them because they are athletically inferior, and mentally inferior, and overall inferior. people dismiss them when they make outrageous claims or comparisons like the one you just made.
The thing is, I would have been willing to let your comment about hookers slide if you hadn't followed it up with a list of blatantly woman-hating 'harmless' jokes. Because joking about giving a woman two black eyes is 'harmless'.
And this is the main point we're disagreeing on? Because you have white male privilege, you cannot see just how harming your 'jokes' are to people on the other side of the continuum. You might not think it, but you are putting down all women when you joke about stuff like this.
And now ask yourself why you felt inclined to make sexist jokes about: beating women, raping women, housewives, women's stupidity? Because you are in a society that finds it acceptable to do so, and you are contributing to that way of thinking.
SpaceJam wrote:i hope i don't need to dig deeper and go into the definitons of burdensome, cruel, unjust, adverse conditions, etc to you. because it should be obvious that harmless jokes about women do not fit any of those words. when i make a joke about star wars fans, am i oppressing them? if i make a joke about obama, am i oppressing obama? i understand that by joking about something you are exercising a pecking order so to speak, but that is not using authority to cause distress. if you or other women are distressed by such jokes, then you should probably be seeing a therapist. saying things in jest is not the same as oppressing someone.
I don't know about you, but I certainly find those 'harmless jokes' cruel and unjust. I mean. I really wouldn't want to: become a slave to a man, be beaten up for not doing what a man says to do, be raped, be forced to amount to nothing but a housewife, or be ridiculed for my intelligence.
Your claims about oppressing Star Wars fans and Obama are entirely baseless. Are you seriously trying to compare that with women's long history of suffrage, oppression, and rights campaigns? Star Wars fans do not have a history of being oppressed. I'm asking you to look at a very real issue here.
Eh. I should go and seek a therapist because I am distressed about 'jokes' about beating and raping women? Saying something like that in jest doesn't make it less offensive. I don't think the CIA would take a jest about blowing up the White House in the humour that it was intended to.
SpaceJam wrote:by calling our jokes "oppression" you sound like an ignorant bimbo.
And you wonder why there are women still campaigning for equality? Because men like you are trying to silence their voices by ridiculing them as being over-dramatic.
SpaceJam wrote:now to address the rest of it...you seem to be under the impression that whenever a women speaks, no one listens..that whenever they try and voice their opinion, no one hears it (or if they do, don't take it seriously). this is an opinion of yours, that is just plain wrong. whether you are a man or woman, if you say something stupid or untrue, people are either going to ignore you, or call you out on it. there are plenty of women in business and politics who have found ways to get their voices and opinions heard. why? because they have learned to think before they speak like any other intelligent person (except sarah palin). if western countries were like you think they are, they wouldn't have positions in politics, no one would vote for them and then no one would listen to their policies. they wouldn't lead companies, no one would work for them, and the companies they run wouldn't be taken seriously.
Okay. I've learned that intelligent, high achieving women can get their voices and opinions heard. So what? Are we going to look at these women as a pinnacle of achievement and forget about the other, ordinary people?
Also, you are generalising my statement way too much. I am saying specifically that YOU have glossed over my calling you out as being sexist, and YOU have dismissed everything I have said as over-dramatic or stupid or ignorant. And by doing that, YOU have contributed to the casual every day oppression of women.
You're taking my statement and running away with it. I never said that women could not be listened to.
SpaceJam wrote:please stop believing everything you hear in some introduction to women's studies course in college taught by some feminazi. there is no war on women. we dont care enough to keep explaining things to you. women and black people are just fucking stuck in the past, thinking we are all still out to oppress them.
Please don't try and make me appear stupid. I have not taken any 'introduction to a women's studies course in college taught by some feminazi'. My views are based on my moral and ethical values. Please stop thinking that if any time a woman dares contradict you that she is either a feminazi or being ridiculously radical.
Thank you for telling me that I am stuck in the past. Obviously I am too stupid to understand you, oh wise white man. Obviously I don't face casual sexism every day, or rape jokes, or kitchen jokes. Obviously I have equal opportunities and equal pay to men.
SpaceJam wrote:the only people i would argue who can say they are being oppressed in western nations are muslim/middle eastern people (who i am under the impression still get profiled and whatnot for their turbans or whatever), gay people (are we seriously still giving a fuck if they get married or not?), and 12 year olds who dare speak their uncracked voice while on XBOX live.
Are you kidding me? Have you forgotten people of colour: negative stereotype view about them. More likely to be arrested with police discretion. Under represented in media and entertainment. But wait, no, of course. Because they're just stuck in the past and just imagining oppression.
And while we're here, why don't we look at women? Negative stereotype about their intelligence. Ongoing joke about how their only usefulness is in bed or in the kitchen. Objectification in the media. A long history of not having any rights. A long history for campaigning FOR those rights, of which many have still not happened. A culture that places blame on them for being raped. A society where a candidate for presidency in the leading western nation wants to abolish birth control - including situations with pregnancy resulting from rape. A society where street harassment is acceptable and should be considered a 'compliment'. A society where some people believe that this oppression doesn't happen. A society where a woman who dares contradict this assertion is ridiculed and called ignorant. And much more.
Do you seriously think that oppression of women doesn't exist? Can you even say that it doesn't given the history in which women have had next to no rights at all?