Gun Control

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Gun Control

Postby Ramshi on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:17 am

(Sorry to the many gun-lovers who are responsible for their yews)

But seriously.

What is it going to take for Americans do impose stricter gun control?

That this time round, it was 20 children who got murdered?

Anyway, what sort of fucking stupid - ........how do I even describe someone who does that?

I really don't get it.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Wanderer on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:11 am

Ramshi wrote:

What is it going to take for Americans do impose stricter gun control?



i personally believe in taking responsibility for your own actions + words. we know america is a democracy. we know the people have the power, and we know somehow it is legal for citizens to own guns/carry them/whatever. this event is something the whole nation will have to live with.
i believe in letting a child play with matches to let them learn for themselves and that they never forget it for the rest of their lives, that fire burns and is dangerous. this is past the point the child has burned themselves, whether they learn or not is something else.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Darth_Wayne on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:57 am

It won't change because a 200 year old piece of paper says so.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Wanderer on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:20 am

Darth_Wayne wrote:It won't change because a 200 year old piece of paper says so.



hmmm.... and here i thought americans had SOVEREIGNTY over themselves....
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Ramshi on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:54 am

australia is a democracy, firearms are illegal over here
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:47 pm

First and foremost, I find it sickening that it's been less than 24 hours you are already politicizing such a tragic event. Kane and I talked about this a bit yesterday: there's a time and a place for this discussion, and so soon after the loss of 20 children's lives is not the time at all.


Since the subject has already been brought up, I'd like to point out that it’s not at all about the gun the guy had. It could have been a homemade lick, moletov cocktails and fire, or a machete in the playground. I'm not even sure it's been stated yet that the weapons used were obtained through legitimate means - and I'm almost 100% sure they probably weren't. What retarded criminal would yews a weapon they got through legal means, that was on record? Banning guns won't remove them from the hands of criminals, only from the hands of gun collectors, hunters - and if you're going with a model similar to Britain's - patrolling police officers.

The only part of this story that is truly about a gun, is the fact that there wasn't a gun there to stop the shooter.

We should probably ban schools in America, and around the world, because they are just far too dangerous a place to send our children. Because it's definitely the inanimate factors of these tragedies that result in death. Always.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby MajorMajor on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:08 pm

I disagree with Magyk. It is always time to talk about what could be done to prevent a tragedy like this from happening again.

Magyk is right though that this problem isn't so much about the guns as it is about the people who yews them. These shooters, they are mad men. They are mad men who go undetected, for the most part, until they commit these heinous acts.

We could put all the background checks we want on people buying weapons and we wouldn't have been able to stop this guy from getting them. He took them from his mother who apparently had the not so bright idea of keeping them around a mentally unstable individual. These laws didn't stop Cho from buying his legally and they didn't stop the Aurora shooter. This is because these people don't have a criminal background until they commit mass murder.

The average gun control law is not applicable to these types of people. They are meant to stop people with criminal records from buying firearms. Virginia could do a better job of ensuring criminals couldn't get these weapons if they ended the gun show loophole but it wouldn't stop these mass murderers.

I think what we could discuss doing is passing laws to make it easier for families, mental health professionals, and courts to ensure these people get the help they need. Also, if no treatment is adequate forcibly commit them if they pose a danger to the community. We should encourage families and friends to be more aware of each other's mental state and get people who need it help.

To the Europeans who think we should just ban all guns I have to say the logistics of that would be a nightmare. There are so many guns out there right now we couldn't get rid of them all. If we passed such a law the criminals would still have them in mass and law abiding citizens wouldn't. Then we'd have citizens who wouldn't relinquish their guns out of fear. It'd be a mess. We can't just flip a switch and go from guns to no guns.

Something I think we could consider doing is fazing out higher powered ammo to reduce lethality of existing weapons. This might save some lives because more people might survive getting shot if they didn't have quite so huge holes torn through them. It'd also still allow people to defend themselves with their guns. Having someone responsible with a gun at the school could have slowed down or stopped the shooter. Arming more people does have its own logistical problems though. Such as arriving police officers being able to correctly identify the gunman, for example. A method for identification would have to be worked out.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:51 pm

It's estimated that 2.5 million gun crimes are prevented by civilian gun owners every year, either through actual yews of the weapon or simply by brandishing it. I'd be willing to bet that figure goes up exponentially when it's just all crime (not gun-crime specifically) prevented by gun owners.

I agree with pretty much everything Major said. Mental health is the real issue, imo. "Fixing" that is the solution. Whether that means stricter sanctions (heavier background checks, maybe a system where someone has to co-sign for you to purchase a fire arm) or trying to stop the crime preemptively through encouraging people to be more aware of the mental state of those around them.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Ranger Bob on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:36 pm

So basically advocating discrimination against mentally ill people? I agree to the possibility that those with a mental illness with a gun may be more unstable. But typically, people with a mental illness have a history of being victims of violence rather than perpetrators of it. Additionally, I don't think that killer at Aurora had a mental illness?

I think the real issue is gun control...I realise that most Americans are ultra get-off-my-lawn-or-I'll-shoot-you, and that they just really want their guns.

The main argument for guns is that it just means that potential criminals will just get their arms from illegal places. But what if we make a law? Only criminals will break it. What's the point of outlawing murder? Since people are still going to kill people anyway. We should just make it legal to kill people, then we'll have a form of self defence against murderers :roll:

And just saying, after the Port Arthur incident in Australia there have been almost no gun-related massacres.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Magyk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Ranger Bob wrote:Additionally, I don't think that killer at Aurora had a mental illness?

He did. So did the shooter at the Tucson shooting in 2011. So did the shooter from the Oregon Mall shooting. So did the shooters at Columbine. So did the shooter at Virginia jan. There's actually quite a correlation between these shootings and mental health.

Ranger Bob wrote:and that they just really want their guns.

Most people refer to that as freedom.

Ranger Bob wrote:We should just make it legal to kill people, then we'll have a form of self defence against murderers :roll:

When a person is in a place where they have a right to be and are violently assaulted they should (and do) have the right to yews reasonable force in his or her own self defense and that may or may not result in a justified killing. I don't see your point.
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