My 3 Cents

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My 3 Cents

Postby MajorMajor on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:31 pm

I was going to write something in response to Maximus on the abortion and healthcare debate but I couldn't find where it was in the old topic. :cry:

So I'm starting a new one and writing about homosexuality as previously suggested by Ceasar? I can't really remember clearly. I must be getting old. Anyway, I swear I'm still waiting to see Maximus's long list of reasons why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. He's said he'd post it like 2-3 times on this forum and on RCB's, when we had one. Unfortunately, he never seems to get around to it. I get too busy to keep writing these myself, or am just lazy and want to chill out rather than do anything some days.

So onto MY list of reasons homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry and the weaknesses of each argument.

1. God says no.

Problem #1:

I haven't heard from God lately, have you? Maybe you should get scanned for a brain tumor. But seriously, we don't have his word we have...

2. The Bible says its an abomination.

Problem #1:

The Bible is a book written by man and transcribed and translated by man from the word of God. Therefore, it is bound to be full of the failings of man. Some of those are simple errors in transcription and translation. Others are failures in our knowledge of the world in which we live. An example would be bats being included as a type of bird or avian rather than as flying mammals. Search Leviticus and Deuteronomy for this. Also, knowing man I wouldn't put it beyond anyone to have introduced a few things to the good book on their own. We should be aware that the Bible was assembled from a collection of texts many years after the death of Christ. Some early versions contain books that never entered the mainstream while others were left out entirely.

Problem #2:

Modern science seems indicate that the origin of homosexuality is biological in nature. This would mean you just are or you aren't homosexual. This would make one think that it is likely God made them that way. This would then lead a rational person to wonder why God would make humans who are abominations and then demand that they be other than what he made them and that we should hate/persecute them for being what they are. Maybe he really just doesn't like some people or maybe this is just one of those parts like the bat. I'm sorry, I mean bird. ;)

Problem #3:

Logic also seems to indicate homosexuality is not a choice since no rational person would choose to be homosexual given that they are horribly persecuted.

3. The institution of marriage is under attack and will no longer be what it is supposed to be, between a man and a woman.

Problem #1:

It used to be between one man and multiple women according to the Bible. So obviously the institution has changed in the few thousand years its been around. Although I still think there are a few Mormons and some Muslims that are trying to revive the old ways. There may have even been an African culture in which women had multiple husbands!

Problem #2:

Divorce is a new thing too. I think Henry the VIII started it. Something about loping off the heads of his wives. So yet again the instution doth change.

Problem #3:

Ok, we'll grant you that marriage between some people won't be the same i.e. a lot of gay men and some lesbians getting married, man:man, woman:woman type stuff will definitely be new.The institution still has its basic features even between homosexual couples. They look after each other, care for one another in sickness and in health, love each other, raise children together, and still get divorced on occasion. It doesn't constitute an attack on anyone else's marriage or the basic idea of marriage. The only thing that changes is the homogenization of the sexes between the couples. My parents aren't any less married just because some Mormons marry more than one wife. Neither are they any less married because two men or two women get hitched.

4. Gay marriage will deteriorate or otherwise crap on the fabric of society leading it into a cesspool of immorality.

Problem #1:

Immorality is variable between religions. Hence why multiple wives is frowned upon outside of certain Mormon and Muslim sects. It still doesn't mean they are any less married. Heck, a lot of inlaws frown upon their daughter and son inlaws marriages. They might even be freaking out that they had a Hindu wedding or a Jewish wedding. It doesn't make them any less married either. Since immorality is subjective, as well as wedding ceremonies, it makes sense to say this is a problem some people have WITH gay marriage rather than a problem of gay marriage. Probably because of their own religious beliefs. Gay marriage itself therefore can't actually cause immorality because it isn't the one that owns the problem.

Problem #2:

I'm not going to become gay just because other people are doing it. Are you? I don't think so. So how exactly is it supposed to lead the rest of us into a cesspool of immorality?

5. Its not real love or God doesn't recognize it as marriage.

Problem #1:

Since we have no objective way to determine what love is we'll just have to take their word for it. I can't tell if you really love someone either.

Problem #2:

What qualifications does a marriage have to have in order to be recognized by God? Do I have to have a priest? Then all the people who go to the justice of the peace aren't real marriages. Does it have to be a traditional ceremony of some sort? Then Hindu, Muslim, and pagan marriages are out.

Problem #3:

Zues, Shiva, and the Great Spirit might feel otherwise about your marriage too. In order to say someone's marriage isn't real you first have to have the right deity and from the looks of it you have a 1 in a few thousand chance of getting that right let alone knowing what that deity actually thinks. Don't you just love the complexity of ancient pantheons?

6. Gay marriages aren't good for the kids.

Problem #1:

Being gay or lesbian does not mean you automatically abuse children sexually or otherwise. So there is nothing bad going to happen to the kids in that way that couldn't also happen in a heterosexual marriage.

Problem #2:

Research on issues regarding the development of children in same sex households is very limited so one is making this claim without any proof.

Now that I've put forth some of the arguments I've heard on the subject maybe some of the one man one woman supporters out there can try and plug the holes and come up with an argument that actually adds up.
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby console on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:41 pm

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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Caesar on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:56 pm

I have debated this with almost everyone, including the schools Psychology teacher. I adamantly oppose gay marraige and/or open homosexuality. If man was predeterminedly ordained to be homosexual, why are there two sexes? Why is there a male and female? If homosexuality was meant to be, we would co-exist peacefully in a unisexual world. I argued this with my teacher and his response was, "This is true, but man would die out if only one sex existed....." I quoted Michael Crichton; "Nature will find a way."

When growing up your're always taught a man + a woman = a child. Never once did a here, man + man = child?! I have observed that the only persons who support the movement are either a) gay themselves or b) wish to become gay. (I don't mean this in a derogatory manner)

The group that supports gay "rights," argue that denying the right to be married as a gay couple is Unconstitutional. I have read the Constitution, and not once did I see the words, Gay people are allowed to be married. Therfore the supposed "rights" associated with homosexuality is null and void. To allow open homosexuality, sets poor morales. If society has no morales, then why isn't open cannibalism allowed?

The Church, as stated in the constituion is a seperate entity altogether. Not to sound judgemental, but they should really stay out of this one. If we wanted religious influence, then the U.S would be a theocracy. Just my thoughts. Sorry for the tirade.
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby tens0r on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:02 pm

FUCK FAGGOTS AND I'M ALL FOR KILLING UNBORN BABIES
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby tens0r on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:02 pm

FUCK FAGGOTS AND I'M ALL FOR KILLING UNBORN BABIES
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Magyk on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:32 pm

Caesar wrote:When growing up your're always taught a man + a woman = a child. Never once did a here, man + man = child?!


And yet a man + a woman = a gay child.



IDGAF if you're gay or not, just don't act like a faggot. There is no reason to be unnecessarily peppy, snappily dressed, good at interior design, and you have no fucking reason to talk with a goddamn lisp.
Jesus christ. You get mad at me for using the word "gay" but it's hard not to when you're a walking billboard of fucking stereotypes, you faggot. I have a pair of gay friends (who are not a couple, but I digress) and they're both the fucking shit. They're into cars, and football, and will pop open a beer and watch the game with you. You'd have no idea they were gay if you didn't ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie5rDY5dJiw
These faggots, on the other hand, need to be shot. A lot.
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Caesar on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:35 pm

I wasn't raging at you?! Just aying what I thought.....
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Ramshi on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:54 pm

It's interesting. How come when it comes to homosexuality, almost 99% of people think it means gay guy, faggot, queer etc.?

They seem to forget that women can be homosexual too.

And just an observation that I've made, when people start openly insulting homosexuals, they always seem to go for the 'what the fuck gay faggot what a queer low life how can you suck someone else's dick and enjoy it' type of tirade.

What happened to the women? I have never seen a comment in my life like 'what the fuck lesbian how can you lick someone else's pussy'.

Honestly, in my opinion I think it's because all the people who hate homosexuals are straight men who enjoy watching lesbian porn. Which is kind of contradictory because lesbian are homosexual women.
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Caesar on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:23 pm

Honestly, in my opinion I think it's because all the people who hate homosexuals are straight men who enjoy watching lesbian porn. Which is kind of contradictory because lesbian are homosexual women.



There is an openly "gay" guy at my school. He walks, talks, and dresses like a female. He hangs with several others that parallel his actions. This is what I see daily as "gay". I agree there are some that act reasonably normal, but those who don't give the whole topic a negative connotaiton.
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Re: My 3 Cents

Postby Magyk on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:31 pm

I wasn't raging at you, C. I meant "you" as in "they."

As in, "you people!" not you as in "you ceasar!"
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