ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

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ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby MajorMajor on Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:26 pm

My opinion is this is a mess, created by Bush, which Obama is failing at cleaning up. Other possibilities I'm reasonably certain could have been are:

1. If Saddam was still in power there would have been no power vacuum for ISIS to fill and any rebellion would have been put down brutally.

2. If we had never left Iraq our soldiers would have kept getting killed by terrorist, some of whom probably now work for ISIS. Its possible we'd have even been facing another major insurgency because it would likely be spilling across the border from Syria.

3 or 2b. Alternatively, we'd be fighting in Syria in addition to Iraq to remove Assad and stop terrorist groups from growing if our President was more "action oriented" than Obama.

So I conclude removing the dictator and trying to institute a democracy in Iraq was the original bad idea that got us into this situation. Also, instituting democracy was mission creep. We went there originally for the WMDs which we didn't find and likely didn't exist in the first place. Mission failure.

I don't like any of our options right now. We commit more troops lives and waste more money we could better not spend or do nothing and watch ISIS slaughter people and grow in strength.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Darth_Wayne on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:59 pm

MajorMajor wrote:3 or 2b. Alternatively, we'd be fighting in Syria in addition to Iraq to remove Assad and stop terrorist groups from growing if our President was more "action oriented" than Obama.


The problem with fighting proxy wars is that some pretty questionable groups end up being armed. The Sunni radicals being supported by the US and their ME allies could very likely be seen as terrorist groups five years down the road. Getting US or NATO troops on the ground and involved directly would end up being a giant clusterfuck, however with what's happening in Ukraine, the West has plenty of incentive to remove Russian influence from Syria by ousting Assad.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Turky on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:08 pm

jkb @ serious post mode
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:09 pm

The truth of the matter is that no matter who started the problem, it won't get solved until after the 2016 election. Our president is a spineless coward who won't act (remember Syria's "red line"?) and the Brits are even further down the liberal rabbit hole than we are, they'll just fight back with words because it is the European way (all this despite a Brit just being beheaded today.)
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Ramshi on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:28 pm

The point is the West is stuck between a rock and a hard place - if we act then we risk losing more troops' lives as well as civilian lives, with the real probability that it will just fuel 'IS's* propaganda. But if we don't act then we risk them growing in strength and conducting more horrific murders, and the possibility it will extend to western soil.

*a) 'IS' is not a state
b) they damn well aren't islamic - they're a disgrace to islam

Maybe a good start would be to stop calling them IS? That's probably a win too for the terrorists, with the West so quick to accept IS as their name.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Blackout on Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Ramshi wrote:Maybe a good start would be to stop calling them IS? That's probably a win too for the terrorists, with the West so quick to accept IS as their name.

That's what they call themselves so that's what they get called it isn't really any form of recognition.

It's really Obama's call as the USA are the only major military power that would act, no other country that wants to act could without backing from the USA. I doubt the current military assistance (airstikes/similar) will go much further because nobody wants to send troops in. Though, without serious measures taken against IS they will likely become a serious threat to the west once they have settled as they seem to be well ordered and structured.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:05 pm

We aren't stuck between a rock and a hard place. We're just stuck behind a spineless President. We have, by far, the largest and most powerful military in the world. yews it. Sending in 475 troops and airstrikes will result in 475 dead troops. Sending in several thousand, along with assistance from allies, will end any opposition before it grows.

Sadly, we won't act because our leader doesn't know how to lead.

Say what you want about President Bush (or Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan) but at least they were decisive. This asshole only says what he thinks people want to hear and never acts on his words.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Magyk on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:12 pm

But really, thank god Obama has time to weigh in on things like the Ferguson shooting, and... Well, that's it, I think. Guy will speak out on a race driven matter, which the government SHOULDNT EVEN TALK ABOUT, but won't deal with ISIS until they behead 2 dudes, and wants to push back other key things like immigration reform until after the November elections for purely political reasons.


Why hasn't he said anything about THIS shooting? http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/sus ... -1.1911964

Because the victim was white, or because he wants to turn a blind eye to domestic terrorism and pretend we all live in candy land? Take your pick. The guy is so overwhelmed with his job and it's just glaringly obvious at this point. Thank god we elected someone with basically zero political experience.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby tens0r on Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Was the Republicans fault for not taking out Assad too btw. And I'm a Republican. The 2 party system is the real problem, can't agree on shit. Should just make the ME a parking lot.
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Re: ISIL, ISIS, Murderers, or whatever you want to call them

Postby Turky on Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:25 pm

fuck parties, I vote for candidates
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